Forum:2019-10-28 (Monday)
Discussion for comic for . Veni, vidi, wiki (I came, I saw, I edited). ---- An unexpected twist. Who are these mooks working for? It already sounds like rescuing Lucrezia was not their objective. Doug Relyea (talk) 05:54, October 28, 2019 (UTC) You beat me! ➤ : Bhwhahahaha }PAF{ oh umm err sorry? Doug Relyea (talk) 07:02, October 28, 2019 (UTC) Okay, so these people report to Lucrezia, but they have complicated other commitments. "Blow this place" sounds like a reference to the explosives in the dome, except that presumably they would be detonated from outside the dome, not inside. Maybe they mean "blow this place" more loosely, as "kill all these people." ➤ Looking at what they say in more detail, they sound like an offshoot of the smoke knights, not wanting to kill Tarvek and Tweedle, but happy to kill Gil. So, are these revenants (but would they then be arguing about what to do?)? Are they loyal to Lucrezia for some other reason? Are they loyal to England? I'm confused. Bkharvey (talk) 05:59, October 28, 2019 (UTC) :Well they cant be revenants unless they're another different type that looks human but doesnt obey Lucrezias direct orders all the time. I suppose that is like the geisters. Still Lucrezia gave them a direct order and they didnt act on it immediately which suggests they are not revenants. Im leaning towards a branch of the knights of jove / storm knights as bkharvey suggests. Lapointdm (talk) 11:33, October 28, 2019 (UTC) :: Confusion is the point, really, but yeah, just because they are here to take away Lucrezia doesn't mean they consider her to be their ruler. Also, I zoomed in on the word "actual" there, which would imply there might be one or more Fake Gils running around somewhere. It's good to see Oggie's already back on his feet. And to continue our discussion from Friday, the extra lights on the diving helmets are presumably just a steampunk-ish/sparky addition. --Geoduck42 (talk) 06:09, October 28, 2019 (UTC) :: Oh goody, more balls in the air. Since Zola had no idea what Gilgamesh Wulfenbach looked like, it would seem so too most of the Wulfenbach Empire and elsewhere. Diving mook 1 however does know so that implies a spy/leak onto Castle Wulfenbach, revenant or not. The revenant could have gotten the info out before the roundup. So, One or more of the Polar Lords? One or more of the 7 available Popes? Spain? France not under Wulfenbach control? Italy? Russia? Doug Relyea (talk) 07:12, October 28, 2019 (UTC) :::Please don't call them "Mooks". Mooks work for the King of the Silver Lands, remember? Bosda Di'Chi (talk) 10:48, October 28, 2019 (UTC) :::: No no, "mook" is a pretty generic term. And since they are standing around debating this situation instead of obeying Lu's orders.. they may not be revanants at all.. --Geoduck42 (talk) 11:43, October 28, 2019 (UTC) ::::: aHEM http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20151230#.Xbcoc_ZFxZU Bosda Di'Chi (talk) 17:43, October 28, 2019 (UTC) :::::: Is the objection that I capitalized Mook after the word Diving, or have I missed something? (again) Doug Relyea (talk) 20:30, October 28, 2019 (UTC) :::::::The objection is that there is a creature/Minion already called a Mook. Or, Mookmen, in the plural. Bosda Di'Chi (talk) 11:10, October 29, 2019 (UTC) :::::::: ...And? An unnamed nondescript bad guy in a group of them that is meant to be dispatched by the Heroes is called a mook. --MadCat221 (talk) 12:04, October 29, 2019 (UTC) :::::::: I've changed Mook to mook in my post. Doug Relyea (talk) 14:52, October 29, 2019 (UTC) ::: I don't think Gil's appearance is supposed to be a secret. Quite the contrary, actually; he made a point of gathering a crowd before entering Castle Heterodyne, and of announcing who he is before calling down the lightning. I interpreted "actual" either as a contrast with Klaus (as heteromeles suggests below) or as a contrast with considering Tweedle as a non-actual Storm King pretender. (Not that this guy is a Tarvek fan; I see it more as him thinking nobody alive today can hold a candle to Andronicus.) Bkharvey (talk) 20:12, October 28, 2019 (UTC) :::: Yes, Gil did, but it probablty didn't have much chance to spread outside Mechanicsburg. Doug Relyea (talk) 20:33, October 28, 2019 (UTC) ::::: Sure. What we're arguing about is your positing a spy on Castle Wulfenberg. That's not necessary at all. He leaves the castle all the time for all kinds of reasons. Bkharvey (talk) 20:37, October 28, 2019 (UTC) :::::: Use of Spies and spying is an undercurrent in this epic. :::::: -Gil reveals to Wooster his knowledge of Wooster's real identity when he sends Wooster after Agatha at Sturmhalten. :::::: -Gil and Tarvek discuss their 'Inside man in Castle Heterodyne' during the Si Vales Valeo transfer with the Castle providing insight and reveals. (Tiktoffen, who later reveals to Agatha he was working for all the factions Earthside, except the Other) :::::: -Gil and Tarvek discuss Gil's use of spy traps following Tarvek's extraction from the time stop, while one of Gil's traps is closing. :::::: -Zola left from Vienna when the news reached there of Klaus' hospitalization. When she saw Gil in the Castle, she knew him as a Hollenfaller, not a Wulfenbach. A reveal from Agatha was needed to convince Zola otherwise. Doug Relyea (talk) 21:34, October 28, 2019 (UTC) ::::::: Sure, lots of spies everywhere. But the only example in your list that's about who Gil is, the one with Zola, was pre-Timeskip. Back then, the only Baron was Klaus, and everyone knew what he looked like. But now, Gil is at least acting Baron, and so everyone knows what he looks like. (You think Le Monde doesn't have photographers in this world? ☺) Bkharvey (talk) 04:13, October 29, 2019 (UTC) :::::::: Actually, yes. No Brownies, no polaroids, no instamatics, no Canon AE-1 Programmables with 35mm roll film, let alone the tripod mounted glass plate negative machine with the pin-hole lens and the external flash pan. No storefronts advertising 1 hour film developing. Surely somebody at the coffee shop in Mechanicsburg would have wanted a selfie with Agatha, once they knew who she was. :::::::: Yes, they have something that the Clanks and dingbots use to "see", and for lack of a single still camera, I'd label that a Vidicon. (the name for the vacuum tube(s) used in Video cameras of all calibers before they were replaced with Solid State devices. Doug Relyea (talk) 05:06, October 29, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::: Oh, fine. Then they have sketch artists. Bkharvey (talk) 06:26, October 29, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::: Yep, we even saw one in Paris. If Violetta's Stare of Death with her comment " ...shouldn't she have more clothes?" wasn't enough, Dimo's expression is priceless. Doug Relyea (talk) 07:18, October 29, 2019 (UTC) :::Since Zola had no idea what Gilgamesh Wulfenbach looked like, it would seem so too most of the Wulfenbach Empire and elsewhere. You're forgetting the time skip. THAT was back just over two and a half story years ago. Klaus had kept his son's identity secret. Gil is now Baron Wulfenbach. been for two and a half years. I'd think, maybe, a few people would see him during that time. --Fred1740 (talk) 21:09, October 29, 2019 (UTC) ::::You're forgetting the time skip. ''To paraphrase Klaus, 'No ...No, I don't think so." The example above the quoted one mentions the time skip. However, I'm not finding something I thought was there, specifically that two of the Wulfenbach support staff discussed while Gil was under the Klaus overlay, that Gil never went anywhere. Doug Relyea (talk) 02:09, October 30, 2019 (UTC) ::::: I actually was thinking that there might be authorized'' imposters out there, maintaining the fiction that Gil is back on the Continent, instead of running off to England. I do wonder who is running things, with both him and Tweedle now here..--Geoduck42 (talk) 03:32, October 30, 2019 (UTC) :::::: Boris. Yeah, he was last seen in Paris, but whatever he was doing there can't last forever. Bkharvey (talk) 05:30, October 30, 2019 (UTC) 1. "Actual" for Gil I suggest means that his father's still trapped in the dome and he's the acting Baron. 2. I was wondering if these mooks worked for Bang Dupree and had walked in under the perimeter, but I guess not. They do seem to be politically aware though. 3. However, they might be pirates or mercs hired by someone else, presumably another iteration of Lucrezia. If this is the case, then having a squad of wasped marines showing up behind them will make things even more interesting. heteromeles :I've been thinking about those marines being sent in with earplugs. If they can't hear Lucrezia, they can't hear each other either. I'm envisioning them as comic relief, each one inventing his own strategy, and tripping over each other's feet. ➤ ::That's quite possible. In real life they'd work out their strategy beforehand, or have a set of hand signals ready to use. heteromeles :Bang isn't going to bring in an army; this is personal for her. Bkharvey (talk) 20:16, October 28, 2019 (UTC) ::I expect Bang to have a sizeable crew, but smart enough not to force a fight in British territory or sea space. Doug Relyea (talk) 20:41, October 28, 2019 (UTC) Oh, I'm being stupid; I take it back about them not "blowing" the dome from inside -- that's precisely why they're wearing scuba gear. They can shoot a hole in that beautiful picture window! They would first collect Agatha and maybe Zeetha, giving them spare scuba gear. So I guess I now vote for them being unwasped British troops. Bkharvey (talk) 20:25, October 28, 2019 (UTC) :Since British troops assassinating foreign leaders is an instant cause of war, and since Gil at least is there on Her Majesty's business, and since Albia was just in the dome and knows what's going on, I don't think these are British Imperial troops, there under command of the queen. They might be coup plotters or disloyal troops, but my vote is still that they're outlaws who think their lives would be easier if they decapitated a bunch of kingdoms. heteromeles :: You're probably right, although it isn't exactly assassination if the foreign leader is in the way of controlling a massive emergency. So, okay, I'm back to Smoke Knights. Bkharvey (talk) 21:16, October 28, 2019 (UTC) :: So, wait, diver #1 is exclamation-mark definite about seeing Tarvek, but four-question-marks confused about seeing Tweedle, who presumably belongs in... good question, really; not Paris, for sure. Where did Andronicus live? Anyway, my point is, this leads me to believe that these divers might belong there, too. But they can't be Tweedle's troops, else #1 would be quite sure that killing him is not on. Can this possibly be an intervention by Grandmother? That would also be consistent with #2 thinking it'd be okay, maybe better than okay, to kill Gil. Alternatively, did Mr. Quinster hire mercenaries to get Seffie and her mysterious package into the dome? But then they wouldn't be that interested in killing anyone; they'd just want to get Seffie out. Speaking of which, "Are you done here?" (Friday) sounds like people who've been hired to get someone in and out for a quick errand. Could it possibly be that Seffie told them her name is "Lady Lucrezia"? Maybe I'd better just stick with my first conclusion: I'm confused. Bkharvey (talk) 01:45, October 29, 2019 (UTC) ::: Martellus was into by his - remember? And there was a reason for the --Fred1740 (talk) 00:20, October 30, 2019 (UTC) :::: I'm getting confused about who's answering whom on this page, which has worse-than-average indentation practice and adjacency practice. But I think Fred "Martellus was smuggled..." just above is meant to be answering my "So, wait, diver #1 is..." a bit earlier. (I am taking the liberty of swapping Doug and Fred to make the adjacency a little clearer.) I do understand that he was smuggled in, and that that explains the questioning tone of the diver, but only if he's from a group that has expectations about where to find him. So, I started discussing the possibilities, basically boiling down to someone in his (extended) family, but not his own troops. I could of course be wrong about all of that, but it's not because I've forgotten he was smuggled in! Bkharvey (talk) 05:30, October 30, 2019 (UTC) ::::: Only Seffie and her Smoke Knight knew Martellus was in England. Wherever anyone else thought he was, it would be some where on the Continent. --Fred1740 (talk) 13:15, October 30, 2019 (UTC) So, it looks like Lugatha did achieve ascension to Queenhood. Doug Relyea (talk) 14:58, October 29, 2019 (UTC) : ... with no obvious external energy source. So we're back to wondering what her remark to Albia on the subject means. Maybe it's just for immortality that you need outside energy? Bkharvey (talk) 15:14, October 29, 2019 (UTC) :: Not sure yet. My thoughts are the Queens draw their energy from their subjects, hence the safe power source comment. No idea yet what the implied unsafe power source(s) might be. Lugatha may be drawing her's from whatever Lunevka was powering her staff with, or she's drawing it unknowingly from the people she wants killed. For all her vaunted ability to outhink everyone, she may have also forgot to find out how the Queens she killed maintained their energy, meaning the conduit, not the source. Doug Relyea (talk) 16:05, October 29, 2019 (UTC) :::Remember that Lucrezia killed queens, so she doesn't necessarily think of ascension as a good thing under normal circumstances. If ascending was such a good thing, she probably would have done it in Castle Heterodyne (using the Dyne) when she first controlled Agatha. Second, she's getting pummeled mercilessly, and she's not able to do anything about it beyond protecting herself from getting knocked out. My guess is that she's ascended but relatively powerless. Third, she tried it as a last second desperation move *after* sword fighting turned out to be less than useful. That suggests either the Professors suddenly got inspired, or, well, an unpowered ascension is rather less useful than being able to competently wield a sword in a gun fight. heteromeles ::::Your third suggestion has merit, that Lugatha's ascension was yet another desperation move. Like Snackleford, though in a less showy manner, Lugatha used up her initial energy with that ice-like wall to stop Trelawny's attack, and as you suggest can now only keep the blows from landing solidly. ::::That has bugged me. In Castle Heterodyne, Lucrezia took control when the locket was removed for connecting Agatha into the Si Vales Valeo. And that sequence might be why I suggested removing the locket. Agatha was able to over-power Lucrezia with it off, though wanted it back on quickly. Later on, when Agatha did ascend, it was also because of the electrical zap Castle in Otilia adminstered, as well as the cup of Dyne water. My thinking is that zap was not different from what happened at St Szpac when Brother Ulm was installed. Doug Relyea (talk) 02:21, October 30, 2019 (UTC)